You said "yes, the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord (Romans 6:23), well, there it is the wages, payment for sin is death."
If you read the context you will see that "the wages of sin is death" does not mean penalty but consequences of sin- it is the result of our actions it is not a penalty that God puts on us.
If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not truly: But if we walk in the light as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanses us from all sin. (1John 6-7)
If we walk as he walked then we will have eternal life through Jesus Christ, if we walk the way the world walks we will have death.
This is not earning our salvation but being worthy of it.
Salvation comes by God giving us the promise of eternal life if we accept that Jesus Christ is the one we must follow the example of.
If we then actually walk in that way then we are worthy of the Kingdom of God:
Eph_4:1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
Col_1:10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;
1Th_2:12 That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory.
2Th_1:5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
2Th_1:11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:
It is complex only because of the false teaching of the penalty for sin has confused the clear teachings of scripture, the following article address this issue in some depth:
In considering Romans 6:23 equating "wages" to "payment" definitely doesn't not carry the impact of sin, that is true. What can be said in emphasizing "wages" is "the just reward for sin is death". From Romans 14:23 it is easy to recognize that whatsoever is not of faith is sin. This leads to what Jesus said, John 3:17-18 "For God sent not his Son into the world, that he should condemn the world, but that the world through him might be saved. [18] He that believeth in him, is not condemned: but he that believeth not, is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the Name of that only begotten Son of God." So the condemnation is the choice of the individual to not believe, to be condemned, to recieve their just reward, their wages for sin.
Looking now to Ephesians 4:1 "I therefore, being prisoner in the Lord, pray you that ye walk worthy of the vocation whereunto ye are called". Very direct, directed to those to whom it was written.
Ephesians 1:1 "...to the Saints, which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:". Ephesians was written to those holy ones, those already faithful in Chist Jesus. This is more fully established by the work Jesus Christ has done.
Ephesians 1:3-7 GNV. "[3] Blessed be God, and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which hath blessed us with all spirituall blessing in heavenly things in Christ, [4] As he hath chosen us in him, before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy, and without blame before him in love: [5] Who hath predestinate us, to be adopted through Jesus Christ in him self, according to the good pleasure of his will, [6] To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherewith he hath made us freely accepted in his beloved, [7] By whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgivenes of sins, according to his rich grace:"
The position of these who have trusted, believed, have faith in Jesus Christ are shortly reminded of that faith. Ephesians 2:4-10 GNV
"[4] But God which is rich in mercy, through his great love wherewith he loved us, [5] Even when we were dead by sins, hath quickened us together in Christ, by whose grace ye are saved, [6] And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, [7] That he might shew in the ages to come the exceeding riches of his grace, through his kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. [8] For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of your selves: it is the gift of God, [9] Not of works, least any man should boast himself. [10] For we are his workmanship created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath ordained, that we should walk in them."
Even our faith to believe is the gift of God. Whether it is eternal life, or the faith to be saved to have eternal life, they are gifts, the first gifts God has for those who believe. It should be needless to say that a gift is freely given, not because of anything of the one receiving, but only of the one who is giving the gift. They don't need to be worthy because of themselves they can never be worthy. The walking worthy, as pointed out in Ephesians 4:1, is part of the good works from the workmanship created in Christ Jesus. Walking worthy of the one who gave the believer the gift. The walking worthy comes after receiving the gift.
Colossians 1:10 "[10] That ye might walk worthy of the Lord, and please him in all things, being fruitful in all good works, and increasing in the knowledge of God".
Again, the question is, to whom is this written?
Colossians 1:2-4 GNV "[2] To them which are at Colosse, Saints and faithful brethren in Christ: Grace be with you, and peace from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. [3] We give thanks to God even ye Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, alway praying for you: [4] Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of your love toward all Saints".
First came faith, and the natural outward expression"love toward all saints". Then shortly after is the admonition to walk worthy of the Lord in all things, fruitful in goid works, and increasing in the knowledge of God. But Colossians 1:10 is followed by other actions qualified by what Jesus has done. Colossians 1:11-15 "[11] Strengthened with all might through his glorious power, unto all patience, and long suffering with joyfulness, [12] Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the Saints in light, [13] Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son, [14] In whom we have redemption through his blood, that is, the forgiveness of sins, [15] Who is the image of the invisible God, the first begotten of every creature."
What a reminder, God has done this, translated (believers) into the kingdom of His dear Son. And the redemption, that buying back was through His blood. What a great reason for those with faith in Jesus Christ to walk worthy of all they have received and where they have been placed.
As to 1 & 2 Thessalonians, to whom were they written?
1 Thessalonians 1:1-4 "[1] Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the Church of the Thessalonians, which is in God the Father, and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be with you, and peace from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. [2] We give God thanks always for you all, making mention of you in our prayers [3] Without ceasing, remembring your effectual faith, and diligent love, and the patience of your hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God even our Father, [4] Knowing, beloved brethren, that ye are elect of God."
The called out assembly who have effectual faith and diligent love, and patience in their hope in the Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Thessalonians 1:1-3 "[1] Paul and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the Church of the Thessalonians, which is in God our Father, and in the Lord Jesus Christ: [2] Grace be with you, and peace from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. [3] We ought to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is meet, because that your faith growth exceedingly, and the love of every one of you toward another, aboundeth".
Here repeated again for the Thessalonian believers is recognized first faith, then love, and hope in the Lord Jesus a good while before they are admonished to walk worthy of the Lord.
The admonition to walk worthy of the Lord is only to those who have faith already. No man can ever be worthy of the Lord in and of themselves. In Revelation 5 the question is asked, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof? Who answered? Was it one of the apostles? Was it Paul? Was it any one of those millions who have been redeemed by faith? As John wrote, I wept much because no man was found worthy to open the book and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
Revelation 5:5-7 GNV "[5] And one of the Elders said unto me, Weep not: behold, that Lion which is of the tribe of Juda, that root of David, hath obtained to open the Book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. [6] Then I beheld, and lo, in the midst of the throne, and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the Elders, stood a Lamb as though he had been killed, which had seven horns, and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God, sent into all the world. [7] And he came, and took the Book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
I think you are getting confused between punishment/rewards and consequences of our actions:
You said “What can be said in emphasizing "wages" is "the just reward for sin is death".
I don’t agree. If you read the preceding verses, you will see the topic is not about reward or payment, but consequences:
“What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness. I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification. For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. But what fruit were you getting at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life. For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” (Rom 6:15-23)
The issue is not about God punishing us with a penalty, but about the outcome of our actions- we choose to obey God to eternal life, or we choose not to, in which case we will die because we are mortal and don’t have an immortal soul, so we will die eternally. That is the consequence of choosing to live the way of sin- because we have chosen death over life. It is not God punishing us, but just the natural outcome of being mortal.
You also said:
“So the condemnation is the choice of the individual to not believe, to be condemned, to receive their just reward, their wages for sin.”
I agree somewhat, but not totally as there are two categories of those who don’t believe- those who have heard about Jesus and those who have not. If we choose not to believe and obey once we hear about Jesus, then we have chosen death.
If, however, we don’t know about Jesus in this life, then the result is only a short term death (for it is appointed for man once to die but after this the judgement)
Those who don’t know about Jesus in this life will be resurrected back to life and then will have their chance to know God.
You also said “Here repeated again for the Thessalonian believers is recognized first faith, then love, and hope in the Lord Jesus a good while before they are admonished to walk worthy of the Lord.”
Just because the term "worthy" is not used until a bit later does not mean it is not implied.
When Paul said “so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification.” Clearly he is saying that we should work in a way that is worthy of sanctification by God
Being worthy is all about living the life of righteousness, which begins with “repentance”, which I am sure you know means turning from sin and obeying God, and that implies that we are walking worthy of his calling.
John the Baptist and Christ and all the Apostles taught repentance as one of the first things necessary to do: “repent and believe the Gospel” etc.
The Ten Commandments are full of the admonition of being worthy by obeying God and not carrying his name in vain by being called by his name but not representing him in a worthy manner to those who don’t know God. See my post on not taking God’s name in vain:
Being worthy is a basic doctrine of God, it is not a late expectation, but obviously we can't be worthy without God calling us first and giving us his Spirit and THEN we need to choose to believe God and repent of our sins and change and live a righteous life that is worthy of representing him in a sanctified and holy way.
No, no confusion. Reading back through Romans 3, 4, 5, through chapter 6 in its way verse 6:23 presents a synopsis of the ongoing thought. Chapter 4 emphasizes the faith of Abram before his circumcision so it is not only for Jews. As written in Genesis, Galatians, and James it states that Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness. This leads to Chapter 5:1 "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace through our Lord Jesus Christ. And chapter 6 meets the challenge of living life in belief, that walking worthy of who the person of faith is trusting in beginning with that preposterous question, "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?" And the discussion becomes one of living a life yielded to God. And in Romans 7 Paul tells of his own personal struggle of the same.
So very much the same way as John 3:14-18 contrasts condemnation for unbelief, he that believeth not is condemned already, because he has not believed in the only begotten Son of God, after enjoining the truth of the intended purpose of God's love, that God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Romans 6:23 echoes the same contrast as it also between eternal life, and death.
And once again there is that word death. The English word translation indeed makes this messy. In Genesis God used the word "death" as means of separation from Him, all that He is, and yet pursued Adam once he sinned and caused that death, that separation. But also to protect Adam from his body living forever God placed a cherubim keeping Adam from the tree of life which if eaten his body would not have died, trapped forever in a sin bound body.
And Romans 6:12 brings back the struggle you were talking about, to not let sin reign in your mortal body. That faith being means of justification, as it says, justified, a present completed action leads chapter 6 to deal with the mortal body in which the believer is in before the death of said body. The power of living victoriously over sin is reckoning oneself to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. But that is here now in this mortal body. Verse 6:23 is an eternal recap. The end result of sin is death, as in separation from God forever as contrasted with His gift of eternal life.
But make no mistake. Those who believe they already have eternal life now. As John writes (1 John 5:11-12l "And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He that hath the Son hath life: and he that hath not the Son hath not life.
As seen in so much of Scripture faith like Abraham is indeed first (Genesis, Romans, Galatians, and James) and it's working is evident from the very beginning of creation as declared throughout Hebrews 11. Yes, without faith it is impossible to please God, for he that cometh to God must believe that He is, and is a rewarder of them that seek Him. And as Ephesians 2 says of faith, it is the gift of God (Ephesians 2:8). For the believer Jesus Christ is the Advocate standing before His Father declaring the one who believes as righteous, as worthy before God. The discussion in Romans 6 is part of what is necessary to be able to be walking worthy of the Lord. As is said in a somewhat similar discussion found in II Corinthians 5:15 that they which live (in Christ) should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto Him which died for them, and rose again. And as Paul admonished the believers in Philippi, to let your conversation (what your life says to others) be as it becometh the gospel of Christ. Again, it is not what brings one to salvation, but what the new creation, the new birth, the beginning of being in Christ, walking worthy of that calling in Christ by which you are called. And the confessing and forsaking, the repentance, is because the Word of Christ revealed to them, that through the blood that has cleansed them from all sin all, then walking worthy, all of those follow after that faith, that faith like Abraham who believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
You said "yes, the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord (Romans 6:23), well, there it is the wages, payment for sin is death."
If you read the context you will see that "the wages of sin is death" does not mean penalty but consequences of sin- it is the result of our actions it is not a penalty that God puts on us.
If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not truly: But if we walk in the light as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanses us from all sin. (1John 6-7)
If we walk as he walked then we will have eternal life through Jesus Christ, if we walk the way the world walks we will have death.
This is not earning our salvation but being worthy of it.
Salvation comes by God giving us the promise of eternal life if we accept that Jesus Christ is the one we must follow the example of.
If we then actually walk in that way then we are worthy of the Kingdom of God:
Eph_4:1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
Col_1:10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;
1Th_2:12 That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory.
2Th_1:5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
2Th_1:11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:
It is complex only because of the false teaching of the penalty for sin has confused the clear teachings of scripture, the following article address this issue in some depth:
https://friendswithgod.substack.com/p/how-we-change-to-please-god
In considering Romans 6:23 equating "wages" to "payment" definitely doesn't not carry the impact of sin, that is true. What can be said in emphasizing "wages" is "the just reward for sin is death". From Romans 14:23 it is easy to recognize that whatsoever is not of faith is sin. This leads to what Jesus said, John 3:17-18 "For God sent not his Son into the world, that he should condemn the world, but that the world through him might be saved. [18] He that believeth in him, is not condemned: but he that believeth not, is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the Name of that only begotten Son of God." So the condemnation is the choice of the individual to not believe, to be condemned, to recieve their just reward, their wages for sin.
Looking now to Ephesians 4:1 "I therefore, being prisoner in the Lord, pray you that ye walk worthy of the vocation whereunto ye are called". Very direct, directed to those to whom it was written.
Ephesians 1:1 "...to the Saints, which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:". Ephesians was written to those holy ones, those already faithful in Chist Jesus. This is more fully established by the work Jesus Christ has done.
Ephesians 1:3-7 GNV. "[3] Blessed be God, and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which hath blessed us with all spirituall blessing in heavenly things in Christ, [4] As he hath chosen us in him, before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy, and without blame before him in love: [5] Who hath predestinate us, to be adopted through Jesus Christ in him self, according to the good pleasure of his will, [6] To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherewith he hath made us freely accepted in his beloved, [7] By whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgivenes of sins, according to his rich grace:"
The position of these who have trusted, believed, have faith in Jesus Christ are shortly reminded of that faith. Ephesians 2:4-10 GNV
"[4] But God which is rich in mercy, through his great love wherewith he loved us, [5] Even when we were dead by sins, hath quickened us together in Christ, by whose grace ye are saved, [6] And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, [7] That he might shew in the ages to come the exceeding riches of his grace, through his kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. [8] For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of your selves: it is the gift of God, [9] Not of works, least any man should boast himself. [10] For we are his workmanship created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath ordained, that we should walk in them."
Even our faith to believe is the gift of God. Whether it is eternal life, or the faith to be saved to have eternal life, they are gifts, the first gifts God has for those who believe. It should be needless to say that a gift is freely given, not because of anything of the one receiving, but only of the one who is giving the gift. They don't need to be worthy because of themselves they can never be worthy. The walking worthy, as pointed out in Ephesians 4:1, is part of the good works from the workmanship created in Christ Jesus. Walking worthy of the one who gave the believer the gift. The walking worthy comes after receiving the gift.
Colossians 1:10 "[10] That ye might walk worthy of the Lord, and please him in all things, being fruitful in all good works, and increasing in the knowledge of God".
Again, the question is, to whom is this written?
Colossians 1:2-4 GNV "[2] To them which are at Colosse, Saints and faithful brethren in Christ: Grace be with you, and peace from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. [3] We give thanks to God even ye Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, alway praying for you: [4] Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of your love toward all Saints".
First came faith, and the natural outward expression"love toward all saints". Then shortly after is the admonition to walk worthy of the Lord in all things, fruitful in goid works, and increasing in the knowledge of God. But Colossians 1:10 is followed by other actions qualified by what Jesus has done. Colossians 1:11-15 "[11] Strengthened with all might through his glorious power, unto all patience, and long suffering with joyfulness, [12] Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the Saints in light, [13] Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son, [14] In whom we have redemption through his blood, that is, the forgiveness of sins, [15] Who is the image of the invisible God, the first begotten of every creature."
What a reminder, God has done this, translated (believers) into the kingdom of His dear Son. And the redemption, that buying back was through His blood. What a great reason for those with faith in Jesus Christ to walk worthy of all they have received and where they have been placed.
As to 1 & 2 Thessalonians, to whom were they written?
1 Thessalonians 1:1-4 "[1] Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the Church of the Thessalonians, which is in God the Father, and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be with you, and peace from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. [2] We give God thanks always for you all, making mention of you in our prayers [3] Without ceasing, remembring your effectual faith, and diligent love, and the patience of your hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God even our Father, [4] Knowing, beloved brethren, that ye are elect of God."
The called out assembly who have effectual faith and diligent love, and patience in their hope in the Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Thessalonians 1:1-3 "[1] Paul and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the Church of the Thessalonians, which is in God our Father, and in the Lord Jesus Christ: [2] Grace be with you, and peace from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. [3] We ought to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is meet, because that your faith growth exceedingly, and the love of every one of you toward another, aboundeth".
Here repeated again for the Thessalonian believers is recognized first faith, then love, and hope in the Lord Jesus a good while before they are admonished to walk worthy of the Lord.
The admonition to walk worthy of the Lord is only to those who have faith already. No man can ever be worthy of the Lord in and of themselves. In Revelation 5 the question is asked, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof? Who answered? Was it one of the apostles? Was it Paul? Was it any one of those millions who have been redeemed by faith? As John wrote, I wept much because no man was found worthy to open the book and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
Revelation 5:5-7 GNV "[5] And one of the Elders said unto me, Weep not: behold, that Lion which is of the tribe of Juda, that root of David, hath obtained to open the Book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. [6] Then I beheld, and lo, in the midst of the throne, and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the Elders, stood a Lamb as though he had been killed, which had seven horns, and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God, sent into all the world. [7] And he came, and took the Book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
Thanks Richard
I think you are getting confused between punishment/rewards and consequences of our actions:
You said “What can be said in emphasizing "wages" is "the just reward for sin is death".
I don’t agree. If you read the preceding verses, you will see the topic is not about reward or payment, but consequences:
“What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness. I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification. For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. But what fruit were you getting at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life. For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” (Rom 6:15-23)
The issue is not about God punishing us with a penalty, but about the outcome of our actions- we choose to obey God to eternal life, or we choose not to, in which case we will die because we are mortal and don’t have an immortal soul, so we will die eternally. That is the consequence of choosing to live the way of sin- because we have chosen death over life. It is not God punishing us, but just the natural outcome of being mortal.
You also said:
“So the condemnation is the choice of the individual to not believe, to be condemned, to receive their just reward, their wages for sin.”
I agree somewhat, but not totally as there are two categories of those who don’t believe- those who have heard about Jesus and those who have not. If we choose not to believe and obey once we hear about Jesus, then we have chosen death.
If, however, we don’t know about Jesus in this life, then the result is only a short term death (for it is appointed for man once to die but after this the judgement)
Those who don’t know about Jesus in this life will be resurrected back to life and then will have their chance to know God.
You also said “Here repeated again for the Thessalonian believers is recognized first faith, then love, and hope in the Lord Jesus a good while before they are admonished to walk worthy of the Lord.”
Just because the term "worthy" is not used until a bit later does not mean it is not implied.
When Paul said “so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification.” Clearly he is saying that we should work in a way that is worthy of sanctification by God
Being worthy is all about living the life of righteousness, which begins with “repentance”, which I am sure you know means turning from sin and obeying God, and that implies that we are walking worthy of his calling.
John the Baptist and Christ and all the Apostles taught repentance as one of the first things necessary to do: “repent and believe the Gospel” etc.
The Ten Commandments are full of the admonition of being worthy by obeying God and not carrying his name in vain by being called by his name but not representing him in a worthy manner to those who don’t know God. See my post on not taking God’s name in vain:
https://friendswithgod.substack.com/p/the-name-of-christ
Being worthy is a basic doctrine of God, it is not a late expectation, but obviously we can't be worthy without God calling us first and giving us his Spirit and THEN we need to choose to believe God and repent of our sins and change and live a righteous life that is worthy of representing him in a sanctified and holy way.
Cheers for now
Martin
Thank you Martin for your response.
No, no confusion. Reading back through Romans 3, 4, 5, through chapter 6 in its way verse 6:23 presents a synopsis of the ongoing thought. Chapter 4 emphasizes the faith of Abram before his circumcision so it is not only for Jews. As written in Genesis, Galatians, and James it states that Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness. This leads to Chapter 5:1 "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace through our Lord Jesus Christ. And chapter 6 meets the challenge of living life in belief, that walking worthy of who the person of faith is trusting in beginning with that preposterous question, "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?" And the discussion becomes one of living a life yielded to God. And in Romans 7 Paul tells of his own personal struggle of the same.
So very much the same way as John 3:14-18 contrasts condemnation for unbelief, he that believeth not is condemned already, because he has not believed in the only begotten Son of God, after enjoining the truth of the intended purpose of God's love, that God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Romans 6:23 echoes the same contrast as it also between eternal life, and death.
And once again there is that word death. The English word translation indeed makes this messy. In Genesis God used the word "death" as means of separation from Him, all that He is, and yet pursued Adam once he sinned and caused that death, that separation. But also to protect Adam from his body living forever God placed a cherubim keeping Adam from the tree of life which if eaten his body would not have died, trapped forever in a sin bound body.
And Romans 6:12 brings back the struggle you were talking about, to not let sin reign in your mortal body. That faith being means of justification, as it says, justified, a present completed action leads chapter 6 to deal with the mortal body in which the believer is in before the death of said body. The power of living victoriously over sin is reckoning oneself to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. But that is here now in this mortal body. Verse 6:23 is an eternal recap. The end result of sin is death, as in separation from God forever as contrasted with His gift of eternal life.
But make no mistake. Those who believe they already have eternal life now. As John writes (1 John 5:11-12l "And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He that hath the Son hath life: and he that hath not the Son hath not life.
As seen in so much of Scripture faith like Abraham is indeed first (Genesis, Romans, Galatians, and James) and it's working is evident from the very beginning of creation as declared throughout Hebrews 11. Yes, without faith it is impossible to please God, for he that cometh to God must believe that He is, and is a rewarder of them that seek Him. And as Ephesians 2 says of faith, it is the gift of God (Ephesians 2:8). For the believer Jesus Christ is the Advocate standing before His Father declaring the one who believes as righteous, as worthy before God. The discussion in Romans 6 is part of what is necessary to be able to be walking worthy of the Lord. As is said in a somewhat similar discussion found in II Corinthians 5:15 that they which live (in Christ) should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto Him which died for them, and rose again. And as Paul admonished the believers in Philippi, to let your conversation (what your life says to others) be as it becometh the gospel of Christ. Again, it is not what brings one to salvation, but what the new creation, the new birth, the beginning of being in Christ, walking worthy of that calling in Christ by which you are called. And the confessing and forsaking, the repentance, is because the Word of Christ revealed to them, that through the blood that has cleansed them from all sin all, then walking worthy, all of those follow after that faith, that faith like Abraham who believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
.Just His Word for now.
Richard
Thanks Richard
A very comprehensive reply, greatly appreciated.